Curse

mr_groovy · Feb 24, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

I tried to use a translator to understand what you were trying to say, but I couldn't figure out what language you are using.

And to the other person trying to attack me...if you would have read my original reply, the comment about pressing buttons over and over is true, even for you are playing through the game, and needing to rethink your build for each area, you are still in fact physically pressing buttons, over and over.

The comment about farming, if you would have read, was just comparing how someone said that farming in RS is brainless, I replied by showing how brainless farming is in GW.

And if you think that all I do/did on GW is farm, then you are a sadly mistaken puppy.

Pff do I have to spell out for you >.>.

Loot scaling was supposed to work that if you had less party members then the amount allowed in an instance say 1/8. You would get less drops. But still more drops then if you would go with a full team.
However this is not how loot scaling works from my, and many other people experiences. Instead of scaling it to the amount of people allowed in to an instance, it also scales on how fast you kill a foe, and how many at the same time.
You probably noticed that if you for instance do a E/me smite run (if you don't know this look it up >.>) and you kill 4 groups of smites at the same time you almost get no drops. Now go and do any elite mission with a full 8 or 12 man team. If you kill all of them at the same time, the drops are the same. Except fact that from the 4 drops you get, you still need to share them with a full party.
Conclusion Anet FAILS at loot scaling.

Terraban · Feb 24, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Pff do I have to spell out for you >.>.

Loot scaling was supposed to work that if you had less party members then the amount allowed in an instance say 1/8. You would get less drops. But still more drops then if you would go with a full team.
However this is not how loot scaling works from my, and many other people experiences. Instead of scaling it to the amount of people allowed in to an instance, it also scales on how fast you kill a foe, and how many at the same time.
You probably noticed that if you for instance do a E/me smite run (if you don't know this look it up >.>) and you kill 4 groups of smites at the same time you almost get no drops. Now go and do any elite mission with a full 8 or 12 man team. If you kill all of them at the same time, the drops are the same. Except fact that from the 4 drops you get, you still need to share them with a full party.
Conclusion Anet FAILS at loot scaling.

Pretty sure that someone did a test proving that wrong....I'll find a link in a sec.

Here ya go http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10225077

mr_groovy · Feb 24, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

That's soj vs Spoil viktor >.>

It proves nothing. Because with soj and with sv you don't kill them at the same time as ss or spike. And it really doesn't compare 1 man vs 8 man.
I've been playing this game for over 2 years now. I've farmed a fair share of that time, and done a lot of full team stuff too. Loot scaling doesn't work how it suppose to be working >.>

Terraban · Feb 24, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

That's soj vs Spoil viktor >.>

It proves nothing. Because with soj and with sv you don't kill them at the same time as ss or spike. And it really doesn't compare 1 man vs 8 man.

Quote:

However this is not how loot scaling works from my, and many other people experiences. Instead of scaling it to the amount of people allowed in to an instance, it also scales on how fast you kill a foe, and how many at the same time.

You kill them at the same time with SoJ, you kill them one at a time with SV, that thread totally kills any point you have with "how fast you kill a foe, and how many at the same time"

And if you don't know that Shield of Judgment kills them all at approximately the same time, you haven't farmed nearly as much as you claim to.

Lootscaling works exactly how it is supposed to, it just doesn't work how you want it to.

Loviatar · Feb 24, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Conclusion Anet FAILS at loot scaling.

wrong period.

i kill groups with 1 shot instakill and at LEAST half if not more drop something for me.

second it was designed to limit gold over time spent as well as simply common items/gold overall

not even considering the huge loophole called the *EXEMPTION LIST*

the only fail are the splinter group playing GOLD/ECTO/ARMBRACE WARS and have forgotten there is a actual game to play besides i have it you dont epeen

trialist · Feb 24, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

I have said it before but GW's economy is actually just made up of two things, greed and stupidity. The greedy sell high and the stupid (and perhaps desperate) buy high and the cycle repeats. In the event of no stupid people to exploit sell to merchants.

Pretty much GW's economy in a nutshell, and this greedy/stupid vicious cycle is fueled by the non-existance of a central place for players to trade with each other, requiring people to spam to buy or sell, which just facilitates the greedy/stupid relationship even more. Since you can't really tell if you are being overselled to unless you go out of your way to check at forums or whatever other sources you have.

I guess the "problem" people have nowadays is that people have gotten smarter/less desperate and the greedy can't really exploit the stupid like in the old days, hence the whine of a bad economy. This is just my view, take it however you want.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 24, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

The OP and several other here feel that "good economy" = "ability to buy whatever prestige armor/weapon I want without grinding".

That's... uh, a novel way of looking at it.

Then we have some farmers here who bitch and moan that everything is too cheap, so they don't get as rich as they deserve by virtue of their farming, AND that drop rate is too low.

Which is also... um, a unusual point of view.

And completely opposed to the first one.

It's a damn good thing that the players usually don't make the calls on GW economy, and it's an even better thing that the GW economy is actually irrelevant to the actual playing of the game.

Magikarp · Feb 24, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

if you think the economy is better in runescape, which it isnt, please go play runescape, and give me all your stuff.

i know people that have been playing since after NF, meaning very late in the campaigns, with multiple FoW sets, and tormented blah blah blah. its called work.

do it, i heard you get things.

Terraban · Feb 24, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

if you think the economy is better in runescape, which it isnt, please go play runescape, and give me all your stuff.

i know people that have been playing since after NF, meaning very late in the campaigns, with multiple FoW sets, and tormented blah blah blah. its called work.

do it, i heard you get things.

No, it is called a video game.

Not a Work Simulator.

Aldric · Feb 24, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic 's faith

I have 3000hours of playing GW, this isnt about selling crap for 250e.
I don't see a need for fow either. Just saying IMO the economy ATM sucks.

Virtually every item can be bought for very little cash at all . At the same time cash can be obtained very easily by various means.

How is the current economy bad ?

mr_groovy · Feb 24, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Ok it seems I'm doing it wrong with my teams.

Could you please give me an idea on how, in an instance, we in a full team for that instance still get get every foe to drop loot? Because all full teams I have been into that is just not happening.

Soj doesn't kill mixed group foes all at the same time, maybe only the silly cows in elona reach. Then again who the hell wants to farm that?

Being ontopic again: The economy isn't as good as it used to be because:
a) Most "experienced" players either all ready have the items they ever wanted, or are no longer playing this game.
b) Loot scaling hurt the "casual" farmer, and the "experienced" farmer.
Casual farmers earn less by farming, or quit farming all together because it doesn't make enough money to be bothered with.(merching).
Experienced farmers that farm for the items see a more people farming for the same item, resulting in a higher amount of items then demand. Which all results in item devaluation.
C) With all devaluation, the elite armors still have a set price. So it's harder for the average people to get.
d) The whole duping ambraces /ecto's and what not fiasco was never solved properly. No way that all the duped items were discared from the game by banning those few players. Then the exploit for the mallyx outpost also chipped in to the ambrace market. And since allmost all the bears unite on doa these days, it will not take long until it ambraces are sold for 100K each.

Nightmare_Pwner · Feb 24, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

lol RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO RS theyre new trade system sucks ass. like its so dumb now

Pandora's box · Feb 24, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Opp: 90% of the runescape players are 12-14 year old kids. The other 10% are clever players who make good -real- money in the game and therefore control the economy. There, your answer!

Numa Pompilius · Feb 24, 2008, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldric

Virtually every item can be bought for very little cash at all . At the same time cash can be obtained very easily by various means.

Spot on.

Quote:

How is the current economy bad ?

The people complaining fall into one of two camps:

1) the people who can not afford their n'th prestige armor and/or prestige pet and are annoyed that other people can afford it.
2) the people who CAN afford their n'th prestige armor and prestige pet and don't want anyone else to be able to afford it.

Bryant Again · Feb 24, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

No, it is called a video game.

Not a Work Simulator.

And you can still play this game in every aspect just as good as someone in FoW armor with a Crystalline sword.

Aldric · Feb 24, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Ok it seems I'm doing it wrong with my teams.

Could you please give me an idea on how, in an instance, we in a full team for that instance still get get every foe to drop loot? Because all full teams I have been into that is just not happening.

Soj doesn't kill mixed group foes all at the same time, maybe only the silly cows in elona reach. Then again who the hell wants to farm that?

Being ontopic again: The economy isn't as good as it used to be because:
a) Most "experienced" players either all ready have the items they ever wanted, or are no longer playing this game.
b) Loot scaling hurt the "casual" farmer, and the "experienced" farmer.
Casual farmers earn less by farming, or quit farming all together because it doesn't make enough money to be bothered with.(merching).
Experienced farmers that farm for the items see a more people farming for the same item, resulting in a higher amount of items then demand. Which all results in item devaluation.
C) With all devaluation, the elite armors still have a set price. So it's harder for the average people to get.
d) The whole duping ambraces /ecto's and what not fiasco was never solved properly. No way that all the duped items were discared from the game by banning those few players. Then the exploit for the mallyx outpost also chipped in to the ambrace market. And since allmost all the bears unite on doa these days, it will not take long until it ambraces are sold for 100K each.

a) Is fairly irrelevant to the issue.
b) Devaluation is bad why? It means the poorer players can afford the spinky pixels easier so why is that bad ? Oh and casual farmers (like me) can still made a bagful of money without too much hassle.
c) It may be harder to get (i disagree) but a 15k armour set is still *not* that hard to get. Play the game and you'll pretty much earn enough for a set without any hassle. Want more sets or FoW then go work for it.
d) granted the dupe fiasco wasnt resolved well but again , why is cheaper stuff bad ?

Alleji · Feb 24, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Sadly, that's true. Any game has better economy AND requires more skill than GW PvE - WoW, Diablo 2, Ragnarok Online, Dungeon Runners, you name it.

I can only compare GW's economy to WoW and D2 out of the above list, as I haven't played anything else.

WoW wins, that's out of the question, but I wouldn't say D2's economy is (or, was, when I played it) better than GW's. D2 gold is absolutely worthless, so the trading system is barter-only, you can reach even less people at a time than even with GW's anemic trade channel... yeah... GW is bad, but D2 is worse.

Terraban · Feb 25, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And you can still play this game in every aspect just as good as someone in FoW armor with a Crystalline sword.

120% True

I do have a weird view on the subject though....

I believe that games should not become work. When you have to start "working" and doing tedious little things, over and over, for days or months on end to get something that you want, it is no longer a game, it is a job.

However, I do know that games require something to work up to. With nothing to work up to, a game gets very old very fast if its' gameplay is not great.

I am basically against making a game into a job unless the tedious work gives you more enjoyment afterwards....for example:

Diablo 2. I have no items but I like making new characters. A lot of characters can't play through the game without good items. So "working" to get items pays off in the end. Not to mention that I am actually enjoying doing it.

With Guild Wars however, you can grind for months and months on end, and what enjoyment do you get out of it? +5 E-Peen. Turning GW into a job does not pay off well at all, unless you like farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I can only compare GW's economy to WoW and D2 out of the above list, as I haven't played anything else.

WoW wins, that's out of the question, but I wouldn't say D2's economy is (or, was, when I played it) better than GW's. D2 gold is absolutely worthless, so the trading system is barter-only, you can reach even less people at a time than even with GW's anemic trade channel... yeah... GW is bad, but D2 is worse.

No "economy" can be worse than GW....I mean come on, the most expensive thing in the game is a minipet. If thats not screwed up I don't know what is.

Str0b0 · Feb 25, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Sadly, that's true. Any game has better economy AND requires more skill than GW PvE - WoW, Diablo 2, Ragnarok Online, Dungeon Runners, you name it.

I can't believe you put Diablo 2 in that list. 3/20/20's? Come on. When the economy is based around bugged and duped items it's crap, simple as that. When the in game currency no longer suffices and you swap to item based it's broken. Then again GW is pretty broken too but that's mostly because nothing is worth anything anymore. There is no incentive to earn or farm because you don't need to get a whole lot of cash to get pretty much anything. The only thing remotely worthwhile is elite armor and you can get the 75K for that just in a single play through of the main storyline. FoW and Vabbian require rare materials but those materials are so devalued that even light farming will get you the gold necessary to buy them. That is the core of the problem right there with the GW economy. There is no incentive anymore. So what if I bust a hump trying to get a rare skin? Some goober will UB his way through a dungeon and net the same drop from a dungeon chest. There are no uber weapons, no epic gear because of "balance" issues which I find to be laughable in the first place. At least WoW has items that actually have a value beyond vanity and yet somehow the balance is maintained, who'd have thunk it?

In the end why bother trying to get the rare skins and armor if they won't give you any sort of advantage except for minor bragging rights? The answer is there is no reason and that is the problem. In a game with a limited story line like GW the only replay value it has is PvP, which not everyone wants to do, or loot farming. The example of Diablo 2 is pertinent here. Anyone can smoke through the storyline in no time but what kept people playing was the loot, which unlike Guild Wars loot, actually made a difference because you did have those uber items with the uber stats. I know I used to do Baal and Mephisto runs for hours hoping for good drops, complete my Tal set and my enigma off of rune drops and loot drops from those runs.

arsie · Feb 25, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35

The only thing bad about the GW economy is that we do not have to choose what kind of stuff we spend on. The default choice is always luxury products.

The GW economy continually print new currency (as long as we play we get paid), while not introducing necessities to spend on. And when everyone can afford luxury products because of their lack of expenses, these luxury products lose their appeal and become common products.

Why aren't we all going around driving Lambourginis? Because we gotta pay the bills, for education, buy groceries, rent and tax. If we ate and lived for free, we'll all be able to afford Lambourginis at some stage, which would make it the new Toyota.

Loot scaling was Anet's way of docking our wages, but without increasing our expenses, we'll eventually still save up for our Tormented Weapon and FoW armour.

Too bad for those people who paid a lot for their stuff earlier. Now your armor and rare weapons are as common as muck.